Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis insists on the necessity of a strong mandate, underlining that he addresses the citizens “with a clear proposal”, which is that simple proportionality, whenever applied, “put Greece in great trouble”, while the formation of a government that will not have a majority , but will rely on the “tolerance” of other parties, is a “recipe for instability and paralysis” that “leads to destruction”. Speaking to “Proto Thema“, and Grigoris Giavaras, Mr. Mitsotakis describes his plan until the elections on May 21, which, as he emphatically emphasizes, “will determine everything”, describing the path to the future that “will either bring Greece closer to Europe or it will remind of scenes from a bad past”.

He clarifies that, respecting the constitutional provisions, he will receive the first investigative order, as he believes that the New Democracy (ND) party will cut the thread at the finish line first. However, he excludes any possibility of cooperation with Kyriakos Velopoulos and the Hellenic Solution and assures that he is not going to bypass the popular verdict, seeking support from individual MPs of other parties, as he advocates the consistency of words and actions. Regarding the possibility of second elections, he points out that he will proceed based on the verdict of the citizens in the first ballot.

Asked about Alexis Tsipras, the Prime Minister, after declaring that “we are political rivals, not enemies”, asks “that SYRIZA put aside the character assassinations of me and my family”, stressing that “toxicity ‘feeds’ its opponents of democracy”. Ahead of the first ballot, he favors a debate with all the leaders, but declares himself ready for a televised duel with Alexis Tsipras on the way to the rematch that he considers to be imperative.

– We hear you, Mr. President, often say – something I must admit that many of your predecessors did not say – that “not everything went well” in the four years you have been running the country. But can you tell us if you could go back in time to July 2019, what would you do differently?

With courage and candor I have spoken of errors or omissions in the fires of 2021, in the matter of the surveillances, as well as in the state of our railways. In the face of all this, we did not stop at words but we immediately launched major corrective changes. Thus, Civil Protection has been reorganized into a modern service. The National Intelligence Service (NIS) has changed leadership. It has control filters and a new operating framework. While our trains are already being modernized, dealing with decades-old problems. These loopholes aside, if I would have done anything differently, it is that I would have run faster on public health issues. Speed up the administration of Justice. And the problems of the young generation. It is one of the big bets of the next four years.

– Let’s go to something more specific: did the staff state, which was the first piece of legislation you went to the Parliament, achieve its goals? I say this because you are being criticized that it was nothing more than an initiative to transfer more powers to the center of government, namely the Maximus Palace.

The staff state is a great achievement for the country. A strong center, which sets a framework for proper governance and rules of administration. And it monitors the unified operation of the government with central objectives and not fiefdom ministries. Why is it not possible to govern a modern state without planning, targeting, accountability and evaluation mechanisms. This is the staff state.

Today there is a Presidency of the Government that will exist even when I leave. And in which we have chosen non-partisan civil servants. Non-partisan, in the sense that they are executives who provide their expertise to the respective Prime Minister. Do you think we would otherwise carry out such a complex process as vaccination with Operation Freedom? Without, that is, a strong center next to the Ministry of Health that coordinates other ministries and “runs” horizontal actions of many services? I honestly wonder how my predecessors functioned without such a structure. Does it need improvement? Of course. We will fix gaps without changing. We will also make changes to the government structure. Obviously there will be changes in personnel as well. And we will have more women in the Cabinet.

– Do you have in mind the outline of the government that you will form after the elections if you are the winner? What do you plan to change in persons and structures?

Today we have the additional experience of four years during which we went through tough times. I have established the great advantages of the staff state, as I have also seen its weaknesses, which must be corrected. Yes, there will be a reshuffle in the ministries the next day. We are already preparing it.

One change, for example, is the establishment of a Ministry of Demographic and Housing Policy, which will essentially take pieces from the existing Ministry of Labor and Social Insurance. An eminently “social” ministry, that is, which will focus on special problems which, however, have wider consequences, such as demographics and housing. There will, of course, be other changes, but I’m giving you a taste…

– Are you satisfied with the performance of your partners and in general the persons you used in the four-year administration? Do you intend to keep many of them in the same positions if you are re-elected?

We have managed major crises during our tenure: pandemic, immigration crisis, Greek-Turkish tensions, war in Ukraine, energy crisis, international inflation. From one difficulty to another. And yet we faced them. And we couldn’t do it if there wasn’t a group of ministers and executives who had the power and the ability to do it. You saw, in fact, that contrary to what happened until now, I did not reorganize the key ministries, only some corrective moves. So, after 4 years, it is necessary for the people themselves to find themselves in different roles. Some will therefore be left out of the scheme and others will change roles.

– What do you consider to be the decisive element for the outcome of the election result? The comparison of your tenure with that of SYRIZA and your face with that of Alexis Tsipras? Or the agendas of the two parties?

Both, since they are interrelated. After all, the programs are not made by themselves, but based on political directions. It is, in fact, the first time since 1993 that the current Prime Minister faces the previous one in the elections. Citizens will thus be able to compare the deeds of the Tsipras administration 2015-2019 with the Mitsotakis administration 2019-2023. To assess four years of instability, over-taxation, bleeding of the middle class, pension cuts, stagnation and disastrous choices by Mr. Tsipras. And, on the other hand, the four years that we ruled. With tax reductions. Salary and pension increases. And upgrading the international position of the country. The citizens, therefore, will weigh and decide who is consistent with what they say and who is not. Who sticks to his schedule and who acts differently for what he says.

– So far, however, the pre-election battle is taking place without the programs being at the forefront. We’re talking more about Georgoulis and the insults exchanged by Internet trolls and less about your positions. Why;

First of all, I was very careful about the Georgoulis case and in no case am I going to draw general political conclusions about the morality of a place, a party, from a single behavior. I have made only a few indirect references – and these to highlight the damage that toxicity is causing in political life. “Perhaps now some realize how deep and dark is the pit they dug for others”, was my position. While what I keep repeating is that we do not seek conflict, but comparison. Comparison of what has been done, as well as comparison of programs for the coming four years. No empty promises. But realistic and measured proposals. And if the citizens know something, even those who were skeptical of me in 2019, it is that we do what we promise and more.

We said a 30% reduction in ENFIA and we reduced it by 35%. We said we would support income and increased the minimum wage by 20% and for the first time pensions by 8% in 12 years. We also said that we will reduce taxes. And, indeed, we have reduced over 50 taxes. When Mr. Tsipras, who was handing out promises, imposed 29 taxes and left the middle class in debt. And not only. And, today, Immigration has been dealt with. The flows have diminished, the islands have been relieved, and the abominations of Moria have replaced human accommodation structures. While our Armed Forces are stronger than ever. And the voice of Greece is heard everywhere strongly abroad.

– Are you concerned about the little influence you seem to have on the younger generations?

Of course, it worries me, as it should worry the entire political system. Because all parties in power have low percentages among the young generation. Young people saw in the past decade that they were paying for the “sins” of previous generations. Many left the country and others see that they may live worse than their parents. That’s what we’re trying to change. That’s why we upgraded education at all levels. Our universities are changing, offering young people a career perspective. With libraries and not with sledgehammers. We increased the minimum wage to 780 euros, from 650 euros left by SYRIZA, an issue that primarily concerns young people. With the implementation of the “My Home” program, we enable young people to acquire their own home.

We also set up new €1 billion training programs for the unemployed in digital and green skills, funded by the Recovery Fund. Programs of the new NSRF for employment, especially for young people, with a budget of another billion. As well as plans to support young entrepreneurship. The more young people see results in their lives from these policies, the more they will realize that “not everyone is the same”. And as long as they see that Greece is changing and this change improves their lives, their trust in the political system will be restored. A process that takes time and persistence. But it started. And it is this government that started it…

– Do you think that the shock of society from the Tempe tragedy will be reflected in the election result?

The tragedy of Tempe shocked us all. But mourning cannot become a partisan argument. And it coexists with logic and composure. Citizens, therefore, going to the polls, will reflect on what they suffered in the past and will take stock of the four years they lived. Showing the options the country has for the future. They will weigh everything: both the things that change their lives for the better and the things that hurt them. And they will decide, taking a total account.

Cooperation governments

– In the great majority of European countries, Mr. President, there are, however, multi-party cooperation governments. Why can’t we have it and you insist that we have to go to a second election to get single-party government?

In the few times that the simple analog system was implemented in Greece, the country went through great troubles. Successive governments with a life span of a few months. Economic fixation and internal instability. Do we want to experience something like this again in uncertain times? In an unstable international environment and next to an unpredictable neighbor? In times that need governments that make quick decisions?

Just imagine in the Evros crisis or during the pandemic when quick actions were required, if there were bargains and consultations. I remind you that Bulgaria with this system is going to elections for the sixth time in two years. And those who invoke Germany, let them consider that, despite its tradition, it took months to settle on a government scheme. Here you are saying it should be done in three days? That’s why I say this is a monstrosity. For a government that, if the numbers add up, our opponents will go for it. The experience of SYRIZA-AN.EL. is too recent to be forgotten. But the position of Mr. Tsipras that he does not exclude anyone from a possible government of losers is also recent. However, Mr. Varoufakis will also have a position in it. Who again asks us to leave the Euro. And in fact, he is already launching a new currency, the…”Dimitra”. While PASOK is also clouding the atmosphere, refusing as Prime Minister the leader of the party that the citizens will have voted for as first. In other words, in the space beyond New Democracy there is a confusion that often takes the form of ridiculousness, but also of dangers for the next day.

– Wasn’t the Samara-Venizelos coalition government, in which you were a minister, a good government despite all its faults?

Certainly it was a good government. Which, before being overthrown by SYRIZA and Golden Dawn, achieved many things in very difficult circumstances. And if its course had not been interrupted, we would have finished with the last evaluation and there would not have been a third, more painful memorandum due to the disastrous choices of Mr. Tsipras. Do not forget, however, that the government emerged after the second election in June. With N.D. to have 29.7% and started as a three-party party with the participation of DIM.AR. Which, after a lot of back and forth, left somewhere along the way. We must not forget that. But let’s keep them as lessons on our way.

– What are those elements that make an understanding with Alexis Tsipras chaotically distant?

First of all the political differences. Our ideological-political references are incompatible. I am a liberal politician, Mr. Tsipras declares himself a leftist, participates as an observer in the social democrats and had no difficulty in cooperating with the far-right Mr. Kammenos. Until recently, too, his references were to third-world countries. I don’t know exactly what his identity is.

Also, the way we do politics is completely different. When I make an announcement, I have weighed it very carefully. And if I see that it can’t be done, I won’t do it. I want to be consistent in everything I say and do. And even those who treated me with distrust in 2019 are finding this out now. Do you remember what they told us then: that the workers would work 7 days. That there will be wage cuts and layoffs. However, the exact opposite happened. In the positive direction, though. Because Mr. Tsipras did the opposite, but in their negative version. He ordered prosperity with one law and one article and brought a memorandum, taxes and misery. Doesn’t all this constitute chaotic distance?

– Do you feel the same about Nikos Androulakis?

Mr. Androulakis has twice refused to meet me and repeats that the Prime Minister will not be the leader of the first party, but someone “unknown X” who will be chosen by him. That is, the people vote but Mr. Androulakis decides.

– If you were in a personal debate with the leader of SYRIZA, what would you say to him?

We have met several times with Mr. Tsipras. What I would tell him today is to stop investing in toxicity and fight back on our agendas. And let SYRIZA put aside the character assassinations of me and my family. I have also told him publicly in the Parliament: we are political rivals, not enemies. Toxicity feeds the opponents of democracy.

– Why do you avoid a direct telefight between you?

In the Parliament these 4 years we have had over 80 confrontations with Mr. Tsipras. Do you think I have trouble having another conversation? As you know, there are rules that govern the debates of the period, where all the political leaders usually participate. It is of great importance in simple analogy to put them all at a table to tell us what this “progressive governance” is. Let Mr. Androulakis, Mr. Tsipras, Mr. Varoufakis sit together and see: does this progressive governance exist or is it a fantasy?

The second ballot is a different matter, because there is the bonus and the bonus will be taken by the first or second in the May match. There is no room for a third party. So let’s see what will happen after the first ballot. The first ballot, however, which is a simple proportional ballot, must have a debate with all the political leaders.

The investigative order

– Since your party is the one that will cut the thread of the May 21 elections, what will you do with the first investigative order you will receive? Will you hand it over immediately or will you discuss a coalition government with other parties if the correlations allow?

I have a clear proposal to the citizens and I explain why one-party government is a necessity for the country. So my position is clear and honest. I believe that the ballot box on May 21 will determine everything. It will be the one to decide who will rule. And the stronger its message, the closer it will bring us to confidence and progress. The May 21 result is the way forward. And the future can have two aspects: either it will bring Greece closer to Europe, or it will remind of scenes from a bad past. I have explained the pitfalls of anarchy and adventures that the current election law hides. Traps that will only be canceled with a clear victory result on May 21st. Lately, Mr. Tsipras has been talking about a government with a vote of tolerance. Imagine a government that does not have a majority but tolerance. A government based on tolerance vote is a recipe for instability and paralysis, which in these conditions leads to disaster.

Regarding the second part of your question, my actions will be in line with the provisions of the Constitution. I will normally receive the mandate – we estimate that we will be the first – which the Greek people have essentially entrusted to me. Let us see the rest after the election results.

– And if you don’t receive a strong mandate even in the repeat election? Who will you talk to then?

You going too fast. You have already passed two elections. I repeat: the decisive ballot is that of May 21. In this, the citizens will show who they want at the helm of the country. I await their verdict and will proceed accordingly.

– Do you rule out cooperation with Kyriakos Velopoulos?

I have categorically ruled out any possibility of cooperation with Mr. Velopoulos and the Hellenic Solution.

– Can you seek support from individual MPs of other parties if you lack a few votes of confidence in the Parliament?

I address the citizens with a very clear proposal. And they will choose whether to approve it or not. I’m not going to try to find a way around their verdict. Unlike others, I have shown absolute consistency of words and actions.

– SYRIZA claims that you are ready to encourage “defections”.

Is this what SYRIZA is saying, which completed its term with a “rag government” of AN.EL., former N.D., Potami and Union of Centers MPs? Today they remembered the “defections”. As I told you, we have a clear proposal to the citizens. And based on this we will proceed.

– Why is the cooperation of the opposition parties, a “monstrosity”, as you say, since the eventual government they will form will have a majority in the Parliament?

They should clearly tell the citizens their program from now. So that they know what is waiting for them. Let them say about the closed banks of Mr. Varoufakis. About the “Dimitra” payment plan and who will be Prime Minister. What they say is “vote for us and we’ll tell you later”. And have no doubt that, numbers permitting, we may see Mr. Tsipras as Prime Minister “through the back door”. Moreover, they themselves confess that between what is said in the pre-election period and the next day, “the elections come in between”. That is, “don’t listen to what we say now, after the elections it will be different”. While, recently, they also put forward the scenarios of a government of defeated with the tolerance of some third parties. How would you call this? And I repeat to the friends who might be thinking of voting for PASOK, to think: Could it be that while they are voting for Androulakis, Tsipras may appear in front of them from the “back door”? And I emphasize to ordinary voters who want to continue their life and work in conditions of normality and progress: Could it be that while they vote for a party with the aim of continuity, it will be interrupted by a sudden adventure?

– Is the “investment grade” the new great national goal of the country?

Our national economy was upgraded 12 times during our government tenure, so that the country is now very close to regaining investment grade. A development which, in turn, will mean cheaper borrowing for the Hellenic Republic, for businesses and for our households. This national goal, combined with the need for a strong representation of the country internationally, necessitates political stability over a four-year horizon. And that’s only N.D. that can guarantee it. That is why I say with confidence that a self-sufficient New Democracy means investment grade in 2023.

– You fear that the goal of political stability may be undermined by the fact that, due to the electoral system, we may have a government with a weak majority, but also by the disruption that may be caused by the local elections in October and the European elections next spring?

No. I believe there will be a solid majority. Also, the achievement of our electoral goals and the renewal of trust will give new impetus to the ND to implement its program. The municipal elections and the European elections are held a few months after the parliamentary elections and in the wake of the result that will reflect the electoral correlations, with the particularities that each election always has. If I expect turbulence anywhere, it will probably be in the opposition space, if, as things seem, their expectations are not confirmed.

– If you win the elections and the second term in Maximou, do you intend in 2027 to claim to be elected for the third time as Prime Minister or will you launch your succession procedures?

You’re taking me four years ahead. From my hometown of Crete, I compared our first four years to a period in which we build a house. We have laid the foundations and are starting to build the floors. The house, however, is not yet finished. In order to build modern European Greece, we need another four years. And I hope that in the end we will have succeeded. Now to the other part of your question, I have to say that citizens show you when it’s time to leave. Just listen to them and don’t stay stuck in a chair. For me, after all, there was professional life before politics. And I’m sure there will be a professional life after politics. Outside of politics or on the fringes of politics. I have many interests.

– Something more specific?

At some point I would like to teach the subjects that interest me. I could definitely teach Public Policy issues. To convey the experience of what leadership means in times of crisis. I could also pursue academic interests, which of course I don’t have time to pursue now. I could deal with issues related to culture, climate change, cultural diplomacy. I have many interests above and beyond current Greek politics.

Relations with Turkey

– In addition to our own elections, there are also elections in neighboring Turkey. Can we expect positive developments after the completion of the electoral processes in both countries?

There was a rapprochement between the peoples after the earthquakes. We also played our part because we helped immediately. Not only us as a state, the entire Greek society. We then indeed saw a de-escalation, although recently and as the elections approach, we also see contrary examples, with statements, maps, etc.

After the elections, I am not at all sure that Turkey will not return to the logic of the “blue homeland”, which essentially challenges Greek sovereign rights. And with these completely provocative and unacceptable, ridiculous maps, they directly challenge Greek sovereignty. This will never be accepted by Greece. If Turkey really wants rapprochement, it must show continuity and consistency so that after the elections we can pick up the thread again with International Law in mind. From the first moment that the Greek people honored me with their trust, I sought to have with Turkey an open channel of communication and an honest framework of meaningful dialogue in order to deal with the basic issue which was also the focus of our differences with Turkey here and many decades, which is nothing more than the delimitation of the sea zones in the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean.

And obviously a condition for one to be able to discuss this difference effectively is that issues are not added and brought to the table that no Greek government could ever imagine discussing with Turkey. Like, for example, issues that have to do with Greek sovereignty in the Aegean islands. These issues are outside the scope of any discussion, they do not enter the scale, we are not going to make a total “bargain” to “get along with Turkey”. But even in the event that we cannot resolve the dispute concerning the delimitation of the continental shelf and the EEZ, we can agree with Turkey that we do not need to have hostile relations. We can cooperate in other areas, even if we continue to disagree on this issue. As long as this does not manifest itself in aggressive behavior such as overflights or systematic violation of Greek sovereign rights.